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  • Oil for the 2.8

    This makes a change for me not to be posting about the dpf or moaning about the head unit but I am curious to know your opinions on oil. This is copy/pasted from the same question I have asked on the Prado forum, as you have the same engine I would love to hear your views:

    I know this has been discussed before but I would like to get your current thinking on the brand the price and the quantity of oil that you buy.
    My dealer uses mobile 0w-30 but only sells it in 5 litre cans, the price is $77. They will supply larger quantity from the workshop but still want to charge at the same rate as for 5 litres. (no wonder some people call them stealerships)
    Other stores have Penrite Enviro+ C2 0w-30 @ around $140 for 10 litres and $250 for 20 litres. the engine needs 7.5 litres so none of these will cope with an even number of changes without buying a smaller can to make up the difference.
    So any advice please? I know that this is high tech stuff claiming protection for the dpf and catalyst but the price still almost breaks my heart as I have been used to buying a 209 litre drum of oil for marine and agricultural use in the UK for about 250 quid.

  • #2
    I bought some Penrite 5w30 C3 from Repco on special some time back , about $50 for 5 litres. Havent used any as yet i just bought it for top ups if required. You need to be careful with top ups so i have been told , in case of a major failure the dealer sends an oil sample for lab analysis , to make sure your oil hasnt caused the issue.
    2016 GX , in White

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    • #3
      That sounds a good price, and I am not in the least surprised that Toyota have the oil analysed!

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      • #4
        I buy 10 litres (2 containers) for a service. Next service I just buy 5 litres (1 container) as I still have 2.5ltrs left over from previous service. Hence the 7.5 ltr thing works out well.
        never topped up between 10k km oil changes.
        The local Toyota spare parts guys have great service and look after me.

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        • #5
          Thanks Luke, I don't know the dealer like you!
          My post on the Prado forum has (unintentionally by me) stirred up the proverbial hornets nest. One guy said that his mechanic uses Penrite HPR, as I hadn't heard of it I searched on the Penrite website only to discover that it should not be used in our engines.
          I think I have it sorted now as another post gave a link to the Repco website who are selling Shell Helix Ultra 0w-30 ECT C2/C3 @ $51.59 for 5 litres. As three by five litre cans should exactly do two changes and several local stores have this in stock this is what I will use.
          I have used this brand on engines with a dpf before and the Repco website shows it as correct for my vehicle rego so I do feel reasonably confident that this is the right choice and best value that I can get.
          Thanks for all the help.

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          • #6
            To be smart about this, DIY owners should always buy their engine oils in 20 litre pails off a wholesaler that is in every city and town. I buy either Peak Oils Full Synthetic 5W/30 or Tritech Lubricants 5W/30 for about $125 + GST wholesale. Just punch in your vehicle in any of their Lube Guides for your vehicles. These are all top rate quality lubricants and formulations as good as anything on the market by the majors like Castrol/Mobil/BP/Shell /Caltex etc.

            http://www.peakoil.com.au/toolkit/peak-lube-guide/

            http://www.tritechlubricants.com/lube-guide/

            I am also a lube formulator and still work for the majors, but buy off these guys as we toll blend some grades for them, and much contention is with the 1GD-FTV engine, and you must use first and foremost a Group III synthetic to prevent oil volatility (break up of oil into vapours) being sucked in through the EGR and into the intake manifold and DPF via the PCV. Even better, but you have to ask for it, is a Group IV synthetic using a Poly Alpha Olefin (PAO) base oil but the price goes up to $185 + GST Wholesale. I use this in our Mercedes diesels as the dealers using this as these engines are expensive to fix so they need all the anti-wear they can get.. Private MB workshops might generally use a Group III base oil to offer a cheaper price to customers as a trade off unless the customer specifies the beter grade..

            I believe you can get away with using a catch can if you stick with the slightly heavier grades in this engine which is more correct anyway. (Berrima Diesel has a video on this topic on YT where the owner mechanic runs the engine in hotter climates and massive blow by vapours mixed with motor oil vapours just pour out like a steam hose).

            I am the current supplier of lubes to the Antarctic Division (AAD) and let me tell you that using a 0W/30 in these engines on the mainland no matter how cold it gets or how close a tolerance the engine is built too is unnecessary. I sell a special 0W/20 PAO oil to the AAD where the pour point needs to be -60C. In fact in one of those Berrima Diesel videos they also own a workshop in the Philippines and use a 10W/40 and 15W/50 (even in Semi-Synthetic grades as viscosity is the key here) grade in Toyota engines in those hot humid environments as with the 0W/30 up to 5W/40 grades the oil vapours out of the PCV hose is massive.

            So in hotter areas of Australia or heavy towing use I would use a 5W/40 Group III (The Toyota oil is a GP III) LOW SAPS (Low Sulphur and Phosphorus) oil that is kinder to the DPF. Down south a 5W/30 or even a 5W/40 is OK too.

            Also the Toyota WS transmission fluid is a group III base fluid (The OEM fluid I use for the Benz's from Germany is a Group IV and I dont care paying extra as they are expensive to repair, that is a Fuchs brand) , and any of these oil suppliers can supply you the same formulation at a fraction of the cost. Check out the lube guides.

            With regards to filters I have switched away from Ryco etc as these are paper filters and OEM are usually the higher quality "Fleece" filters that are massively superior in filtration, construction and longevity. I would use the Toyota filter or an imported Nippon Max OEM type filters, a little more expensive than the stuff you get from Repco/Autobarn etc but worth it.
            I only use the OEM German MANN filters for the MB's as they are fleece filters. It is why my engines on my Sprinters/Crafters have 250,000KM plus on them running like new, never been apart.

            I would also look at quality Terrain Tamer filter kits as well to save money as a full kit : https://www.allfourx4.com.au/epages/...YaAjukEALw_wcB

            In our lab we ran tests years ago and the paper filters work better (filter better) after they become more dirty which stops contaminants passing through the element which says that when new particles are able to go through the element. This is not good.

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            • #7
              Alex , thanks for sharing your insights into the lubrication world , we appreciate it. bit of a specialised field i reckon.

              Interesting about the Merc diesels as well ,in a past job I ran a fleet of 20 Sprinters ( 2006 models ) for a facilities management company and the services on those were at 40k intervals , i couldnt believe it at first. The fleet cost to us was hugely expensive because of other issues like brakes , clutches and other electrical gremlins. ,but we never had an engine issue in the 80k we kept them for!!
              2016 GX , in White

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              • AlexV
                AlexV commented
                Editing a comment
                I assume these were the previous models with the 2.7 Litre 5 Cylinder diesel and that crappy "Sprintmatic" semi automatic transmission. The engines were OK and had a large sump of about 9 litres and longer oil change intervals were OK. But the transmissions were neglected by owners and i have seen oil samples from these units where the vehicle jumps out gear especially when driving through an intersection when taking off at the lights. The oil was so contaminated with wear particles the lab apparatus could not register particles greater than 60 micron.

                The newer 2.1 and 3.0 litre engines have 11 and 12.5 litre sumps respectively so oil changes up to 20K plus can be achieved, I change them at 15K. 80K is very short for these engines they can do 400K no issues with good servicing (inc coolant changes).

              • White One
                White One commented
                Editing a comment
                yes , that was them , the 5 cyl version like what the ambos drive. We were promised a cheap base cost but with downtime it ended up being anything but cheap so we went back to Japanese fleets.

            • #8
              Mate, awesome read. Thank you 😊

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              • #9
                Yes interesting to hear the views of someone involved in the industry. Luckily I haven't changed my oil yet as I had bought a Repco filter, I think I will buy a genuine one after reading your opinion.
                What is your view on the subject of the required frequency of oil changes? I ask because I have argued with the dealer and been rebuked by the (self appointed) auto expert (with a website and YouTube channel of the same name) for suggesting that in my case I did not have to follow Toyota's instructions that oil must be changed every 6 months even if the vehicle (as in my case) is not used at all.
                When my Prado was under guarantee I had to abide by the 6 month rule which meant that I would have a capped service, stand the car on axle stands with battery disconnected for 7-8 months while I was in the UK. On my return Toyota insisted that the next service was due despite the car having covered about 5 kms. I am aware by the way that an engine could need a shorter service interval because of use in arduous conditions like dust or frequent stop/starts etc but I am talking about standing idle and unused.
                This annoyed me as I have been used to agricultural and marine engines needing a service after an amount of hours run, not the time elapsed since the last service.
                Apologies to those who have read my moans about this subject before!

                Comment


                • AlexV
                  AlexV commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Oil also acts as a Preservative Oil and has a healthy does of corrosion inhibitors in it but only if the oil is in good condition in the first place. You wouldn't want to lay your It seems crazy I know to change fresh oil even after sitting for 7-8 months. You wouldn't want to lay up a vehicle for 7 months with oil that has done say 8-10K as it has acids in it from combustion and fuel dilution. So change the oil before laying it up. I would also use a Fogging Oil into the air intake after the MAF sensor before laying it up so the combustion surfaces are coated with an oily film, inc turbo/EGR.
                  In the old days the practice was to slowly tip a dash of engine oil or ATF down the carb opening (or air intake on a diesel) at idle until smoke was emitted from the tailpipe or the engine conked out..

                  The Army has vehicles that sit idle for months and years and are serviced by the book. If the engine is pulled out a special preservative oil is added that emits vapours that coats the dry surfaces to stop rust and displace moisture and oxygen. Farm Tractors that use that Universal Tractor/Transmission/hydraulic oil (UTTO) has a much higher amount of those preservative additives to prevent corrosion in machinery that has to sit idle between harvesting periods for example.

                  Yes I know it seems ridiculous, but your oil is new and would be OK after this time and I think you talk direct to the service manager there can some concessions done for your situation. Ideally the vehicle needs to be used. If you have someone trusted get them to take it for a drive, better still if they are doing a long country trip get them to take the car, even better if they are pulling a trailer. I have given advise to dozens of people over the years who have city/urban driven diesel cars to give it to someone trusted who are doing a country trip and when they get their car back it runs much better.
                  The worst thing to do is just start the engine and let it idle, it must be driven under load to operating temperature for a prolonged period of time..

                  I would also use a Diesel Fuel Conditioner in your fuel system to prevent algae (bugs) from forming. Sometimes half of those boats you see parked at marinas dont run any more as their fuel systems are clogged by the Cladisporum resinae bacteria that feeds on the water/diesel interface in their fuel tanks clogging their fuel filters and with inches of dead bugs on the bottoms of their fuel tanks.

                  https://boatgoldcoast.com.au/go-gree...ur-fuel-clean/ You can buy good quality fuel treatments at places like Autobarn and double dose for storage..

              • #10
                Thank you for reassuring me, what you have suggested is almost exactly what I do. I will shortly be returning to the UK and literally just before standing my Prado on axle stands to take the weight off the tyres and disconnecting the battery I will change the oil and filter.
                I feel much happier leaving the car unused rather than have someone use it occasionally. I cringe when I hear tales of people starting up an engine, revving it's nuts off for a short while then leaving it again. I usually leave the tank full of diesel in an effort to reduce condensation within the tank.
                It is good to hear the scientific name of the the diesel "bug", being a retired commercial fisherman I need no reminding of the issues caused by it. Once a boat tank was infected we found that the only treatment that worked was completely draining then cleaning out the tank. We used mainly Racor as primary filters, these were centrifugal and had a very easily replaced filter element at the top, these could be changed without the need for bleeding the system which was very useful at sea. The "bug" was a horrible black gunge and is very difficult to prevent on sea going boat.

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                • #11
                  In fact, a diesel engine should have a specialized oil, it is not easy to select it, but real. You just need to turn to professionals for help and then there will be no problem to find and buy such oil. For example, I did it. Fortunately, my friends helped me and told me that here I can study the list of the best synthetic oil for diesel engines https://carfluidsexpert.com/best-syn...iesel-engines/ , I am very glad that I was able to find such information and I have already picked up the best oil for me. For example, Mobil 1 Super 96819 15W-40 is very good for old cars, but look for yourself, there are several options and it is up to you to decide. Good luck.
                  Last edited by Klais; 10-11-2020, 03:02 AM.

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