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  • Rumours about new 5th injector housing

    there are rumuors on other forums about a new 5th injector housing release for the 1GD , has anybody else heard about it? supposedly at the same time a revised DPF is being fitted. If i hear anything else i'll report back
    2016 GX , in White

  • #2
    Not heard anything yet. But with the known DPF issues & associated legal class action, plus this engine is in the Fortuner, Hilux & Prado, & if the rumour is true, Toyota's hand may have been forced into do something now rather than later.

    Comment


    • #3
      this whole issue has gone on for a while now ,but i suspect they may have needed the time to ensure the fix is right. Havent heard any more about the class action either , maybe that will be dropped if they can prove the issue is sorted properly
      2016 GX , in White

      Comment


      • #4
        The last I heard from Banister Law (at least I think that is what they are called) was an update email which unfortunately I have since deleted saying that Toyota were given more time to provide extra information.
        I thought at the time don't hold your breath for that ever happening as they don't even tell their own dealers what is happening let alone publish it.
        I have not read anything on the Prado forum about the 5th injector either, so no news to report.
        Oddly enough I was watching a regen today and noticed some odd behaviour. Unusually for my car we had several very short trips that coincided with a burn. Today as soon as the engine reached operating temperature as the burn had stopped a couple of times previously a new burn began. 5h injector was active and the temperatures were raised as usual. Shortly after this we reached our destination where my wife had to drop something in at a friend's house, so I left the car running and watch torque pro on the head unit. Usually when stationary the idle revs go to 1200, (manual) they didn't and continued to be low. Exhaust temp 1 was low but 2&3 were high and the soot % appeared to still be lowering. On driving away again the % went up then down again eventually eventually to 6% when things reverted to normal.
        This has made me wonder if it was a glitch of the software, as far as I know the only cause that has been investigated is hardware like the 5th injector blocked with carbon, could it be software playing up and not completing a regen properly?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
          This has made me wonder if it was a glitch of the software, as far as I know the only cause that has been investigated is hardware like the 5th injector blocked with carbon, could it be software playing up and not completing a regen properly?
          dont know ,it could be one of the pressure sensors not reading properly as well. On my previous Tuna it was doing all sorts of strange things beforehand , like burn temps of 730deg , soot loads of 150% , continual burns etc , you name it. Yet to drive the car was normal. When i took it in for a smoke issue they did a DPF study and determined that the core was melted ,and this was after every update had been completed.

          2016 GX , in White

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          • #6
            Hi all,

            I have a Hilux and just had my battle with Toyota.

            Last year I had DPF swithc installed, new software update and DPF message on dashboard screen. Car has all the latest updates.
            I monitor car ECU info via OBD dongle and TorquePro app.
            Recently when driving long distances on freeways DPF will usually start regenerating (burn) at approx after 250-290kms driving.
            After the burn is completed, if I still continue uninterrupted drive on the freeway (usual speeds of 110km/h), the DPF will start accumulating soot much much quicker, almost 1% for every km driven. So its then showing as full after approx 100-130kms and commences the burn again!

            If I then stop or start driving in suburbs (stop, start traffic, up to 70-80km/h) the actual percentages of how much soot is accumulated in DPF start falling. Sometimes from 80% to lets 30% etc. But if I continue driving the DPF burns will happen every 100 or so kms, which is not normal.

            I was at the loss why is this happening.

            Been to Toyota number of times and every time I am advised no codes, can not diagnose what is going on and all appears correct. No smoke from exhaust.

            Then just before corona restrictions I went for a long drive, all up over 620km.
            Car did 4 regens.
            I had second a phone and was recording key moments of DPF accumulation percentages as shown on my main phone TorquePro app, distance traveled on odometer etc.
            Sent all of that to local Toyota who advised me same day they sent it all to techs in Japan.
            Two days later I was called to local dealership, apparently Japan techs agreed, things are wrong and requested more tests and data as per their specifications and instructions in regards to what needs to be done by dealership.
            Not sure exactly what they were chasing, I know that dealership cleaned 5th injector and performed some "test" twice, which apparently car failed both times.

            Then I was waiting for a new DPF, new design 5th injector and new injector housing.

            Car is May 2018 SR, with 63k. Regularly serviced at Toyota. I drive daily almost 100kms on a freeway.

            Noticed something was not right about half a year ago when Toyota rolled out their new DPF software update (quick DPF accumulation whilst driving on freeway started after they installed that software, not sure if it is related, but just my observation).

            Report after new installation.

            What was replaced:
            - New DPF
            - New 5th injector
            - New 5th injector housing
            - New gaskets

            Here is the photo of the old 5th injector housing



            And here is the new one:


            I noticed couple differences from outside if anyone wants to compare
            - left of that housing bolt it says "8" on the old one, on the new one it says "10"
            - on the new one it says on top of it "D", whilst the old one does not have that "D".


            These are all parts used:



            Interestingly after I picked up the car, I literally drove out of dealership in to neighboring carpark, connected OBD and TorquePro and DPF was showing at 42% already?!


            I checked with service and they explained it will need couple of regenerations for all to sync and reset ... whatever that means. Hopefully someone will be able to explain it here.

            Also, I could smell fresh smell of burn all around the car, even after driving it home for about 10 kms.

            Fingers crossed now, and hopefully it is all sorted.

            Local dealership was nothing but great once the issue was acknowledged by Toyota techs. But it took me number of complaints and finally a video recording to get the things happening. Car had 62500 kms on odometer when this was done.


            I hope this report helps someone else.





            Comment


            • variable
              variable commented
              Editing a comment
              Both housings look quite similar, I wonder if any internal changes?

            • Spook1205
              Spook1205 commented
              Editing a comment
              Once a regen is forced the accumulation will be quicker and often recalculates after and the number drops again. It will also regen a bit more after forced regen, then sorts itself out if it doesn’t have any back pressure readings that are out of expected values.
              Maybe the hole is bigger in the housing, so will take longer to carbon over.

          • #7
            Yeah I had the same burning every 100ks or so of highway driving after completing a burn. I've done 3 trips from Brisbane to Melbourne this year. I be going a different route though and putting in a passive dpf rather than the stuff around with Toyota.

            Comment


            • grunf
              grunf commented
              Editing a comment
              As you wish mate. But, I still think everyone with the car issues should chase Toyota to fix them.

            • Spook1205
              Spook1205 commented
              Editing a comment
              The ECU will still do a regen between every 150 to 350km or so.

          • #8
            The ECU will still do a regen between every 150 to 350km or so.
            So you reckon even with new DPF and new injector it may still do burn every 150kms or so?

            I do not think that is normal or acceptable. For a car to conduct burns over 1/3 of total driving is just wrong.

            Comment


            • #9
              It normally does two about 300kms apart then throw in one at a shorter interval, hence about the 150km interval.
              well my car does and it’s got 160k kms without an issue.

              Comment


              • #10
                Thats different to what I and number of other people are experiencing.
                Whilst driving on freeways at constant speeds of 100km/hr and above, the regens occurs every 100km which is not acceptable.
                It accumulates approximately 1% for every km driven.

                Comment


                • Spook1205
                  Spook1205 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  On the highway at higher speeds with a decent load or towing the vehicle will actually go into a passive regen mode. I have driven 500km with the accumulation sitting around 80 to 90%.
                  Without towing 300 to 360 is normal on highway with the short one thrown in the mix.

                  If your vehicle is constantly only getting 100 odd kms between a regen then something is not right. You would want to check temps of EGT2 during the burn. Should be at minimum 580 deg up to about 700 on final stages of regen. What you are experiencing is not normal operating function of the DPF unit and as you say is not acceptable.

                  If you put a chip on the engine for extra power that will also cause grief, as the air/fuel ratio sensor will not be reading what its expected to. Hence it will regen more often to ensure vehicle is within emission regulations.

              • #11
                Mate, in my earlier posts above ( https://www.fortunerforum.com.au/for...0135#post20135 ) , I explained what was the issue and how it was addressed by Toyota.
                Last edited by grunf; 23-04-2020, 05:37 PM.

                Comment


                • Spook1205
                  Spook1205 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yeah true, my bad...

              • #12
                I drive the 150 series Prado and can say I had the exact same thing happen to me. Burns on long trips were occuring as low as 100km's. I contacted Toyota and was told all good. I kept telling them there was something wrong. DPF injector temp was ok not quiet 700 deg. Finally Toyota replaced the DPF and now I can do over 300km on a drive at 100km/h. They suspect the DPF partially blocked. I managed to find out the PID for the Cat diff sensor so I now monitor that it reduces to 0.05 after a burn is finished. I think this is the only true way to see if the DPF is starting to block up.

                Thanks
                Doug

                Comment


                • #13
                  Hi Cuda,

                  I've also experienced the 100k burns on some trips, but it isn't consistent. I put it down to load, temperature, fuel, towing etc (I was in the outback, buying station fuel, towing a trailer, at 40C temps!).

                  Can you share the PID? I will add it to my SG2.

                  Thanks,
                  Dave

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Originally posted by DaveC View Post
                    Hi Cuda,

                    I've also experienced the 100k burns on some trips, but it isn't consistent. I put it down to load, temperature, fuel, towing etc (I was in the outback, buying station fuel, towing a trailer, at 40C temps!).

                    Can you share the PID? I will add it to my SG2.

                    Thanks,
                    Dave
                    Can do. Let me know what value you are getting would be interesting to see if there is a difference

                    Prado Catalyst Differential Press.
                    ModeAndPID 2138
                    Equation (F*256+G)*0.001-32.768
                    Header 7

                    Dont know the values for SG2 these work on the Torque pro app.

                    Thanks
                    Doug

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      The following is a question I asked on the Prado forum but thought that I would copy and paste it here as I know that several of you will be able to give an answer, with one member in particular (Luke lol)

                      Could someone explain the difference between catalyst differential pressure and DPF differential pressure?

                      I ask because I am pretty sure that Cuda quotes cat pressure (F*256+G)*0.001-32.768 and not DPF pressure (D*256+E)*0.01-327.68
                      I cant get my head around why the emphasis is on the catalyst when surely the filter is what we are interested in???
                      The DPF differential pressure (which I have rightly or wrongly always looked at) gives far higher figures. I found this on research gate dot net:

                      "Engine efficiency decreases with increasing backpressure due to thermodynamic reasons. The pressure drop of the DPF increases as it captures particulate matter from the engine. Depending on the DPF wall material, cell density, diameter and brick length, a clean DPF typically has a baseline pressure drop of 0.5-0.8 kPa. A rule of thumb is that the engine power will decrease by 1% for every 3-4 kPa increase in engine backpressure. Thus, engine OEMs tend to limit engine backpressure to approximately 1.5 psi (10 kPa)."

                      It continues to say:

                      "The DPF must be regenerated, continuously or intermittently. Continuous regeneration only occur when the exhaust gas temperature is higher than the soot-balancing temperature (SBT) for a significant fraction of time. This often requires high loading of PGM catalyst in the DPF washcoat. For non- or lightly catalyzed DPFs that typically operate below the SBT, active regeneration is required when the pressure drop exceeds a threshold, typically 5 to 7 kPa. To enable active regeneration event, the exhaust gas temperature must be raised to well above the SBT using extra heat generated either by the engine or by an auxiliary heat source. This, of course, consumes energy. Therefore, DPF regeneration, either active or passive, intermittent or continuous, comes with a fuel penalty.

                      The striking thing (at least for me) is this line:

                      "active regeneration is required when the pressure drop exceeds a threshold, typically 5 to 7 kPa."

                      This matches almost exactly what my torque pro figures show, as I mentioned I am neither near my Prado or Techstream so sorry that I cant do any monitoring to help.

                      I thought there was a schematic of the Toyota DPF somewhere but I can't find it, I don't understand how the catalyst is connected to the filter, (I thought it was part of it) and why the differential pressure is relevant as I would imagine that the filter is the bit that blocks not a catalyst which by definition enables a reaction without a change to itself?

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