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  • injection timing.

    Hi fellers. Anybody got any idea of the injector timing for the new diesel please. Mine reads about -2 degrees . Is this correct?? I thought main injection as at 0 deg normally.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by davidd; 16-10-2017, 07:25 PM.

  • #2
    I know that they pre inject a couple of squirts prior to TDC but not sure how much or how far before. take a look in here - http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-...engine_eng.htm
    2016 GX , in White

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    • #3
      Thanks mate, nothing about injector timing there. But you're right.There will be a few small injections before main injection then another one just after main. but it's the main injection the engine is timed off.

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      • #4
        Hi Davidd
        I am teaching common rail diesel systems next week to one of my trade classes.
        If you are interested in injector patterns like voltage, current flow and pulse width and or how pre injections change I can take pics of the scope work and post up if you like.
        or anything else like airmass or whatever just yell out and I'll see what I can do.
        cheers, Luke

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        • #5
          Luke this forum is just starting to fire up. For a forum to be of real use it needs trained people with real knowledge they can impart for problem solving who are willing to give their time to the forum members to help them out. Thanks for being there. All I need right now is the basic injector setting at idle please mate. Also for my information and any one else interested, how and when the injection timing alters with revs and load etc would be good to know. How the injectors work in general without getting too technical would be great. And thanks for the offer. This is much appreciated. Cheers.

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          • #6
            Hi Davidd,
            On common rail Diesel engines base timing can be from 0 deg to 4deg after top dead centre. This will change from manufacturers due to the many variations that effect combustion. A piezo injector has a faster response rate than a solenoid injector, higher fuel rail pressure means combustion pressure will rise quicker, pre injection will effect main injection timing, air temp and engine temp will also have an input as well as many other factors.
            as RPM increases so will injection timing I have read 15deg before top dead centre is about limit.
            fuel mapping for quantity and timing is very fluid depending on many factors.
            Its not like the old days of setting spill timing at roughly X degrees by rotating the injector pump around.
            If the information you get out of your OBDII plug says -2 deg then that's the best you can go on.
            Remember that OBDII is just a version of an electronic program that monitors onboard diagnostics. It's often used in the wrong context as if it's part of the engine management protocols when in fact it's just a program that interprets the data to a generic format that can be accessed by anyone.
            hope this helps.

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            • #7
              Thanks for that Luke. The older 1KD had an OBD readout of 0 degrees and the 1GD I have has a readout of -2 degrees. That reading changes all over the place, advancing when under acceleration as I expected and retarding significantly under deceleration. Seems all is well. Thanks for that mate.
              Dave.

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              • #8
                Sounds all good then. I actually ordered a scangauge 2 today because Auto trans temps concern me long term with towing. Will be good to look more in the data it puts out and cross reference it to the analogue data most sensors feed the ECU.
                another cool things that happens in common rail diesels is the injectors completely shut off on deceleration. I found this interesting because a petrol engine still delivers a small amount of fuel.
                glad I could help out in some way Dave
                cheers, Luke

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                • #9
                  ive posted up the Scanguage 2 codes on this site somewhere , and will add to them as more become available.
                  2016 GX , in White

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                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=White One;n8028]ive posted up the Scanguage 2 codes on this site somewhere , and will add to them as more become available.[/QUOTE
                    oh cool, will definitely look for them. Cheers 👍

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                    • #11
                      Luke, on the hilux forum there is a thread which deals with diagnostics. The blokes post up their Techstream or other diagnostic tool results so a few qualified guys on the site can interpret them and help in diagnosing problems. Many of them just want an opinion on their injectors, others more serious issues. The fortuner engine is obviously configured differently to the hilux engine. You only have to listen to one at idle to realise that. Do you know of anyone on the this site who could get a similar thread started on our site and more importantly would be prepared to put in the time to monitor it and give advice. It would require someone with qualifications, like a techie I think to ensure right advice was given. The thread on the hilux forum has been an enormous help to many people and also helps to keep the forum alive. I feel the same could apply here.
                      Cheers.

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                      • #12
                        Hi Dave,
                        I am happy to help out, I am well qualified with 30 years experience. my job is teaching the mechanic trade now. I love diagnostics and is really my passion when it comes to vehicles especially engine management systems.
                        so if you guys can see me as one of the forums mechanics to run things by from issues to how things work I would love to put back into this community.
                        I can even put vids up on how to test things on your vehicles. I am sure I am not the only one on here who is a mechanic, another member like Cheekydonkey is doing some great stuff which is awesome.

                        if you guys can share your thoughts on this and how we go about it logistically in setting up diagnostic threads or how it works threads that would be great.

                        cheers, Luke

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                        • #13
                          Awesome stuff Luke. 👍🏻

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                          • #14
                            Finally got around to having a look under driving conditions the actual injection timing.
                            there are up to 4 injection phases (squirts of fuel) available to be chosen for each combustion event. (ok the main injection phase is always picked except on deceleration)

                            Pilot1 ranged from 8.3 degrees before top dead centre (BTDC) to 40.8 BTDC
                            Pilot2 3.8 degrees BTDC to 22.3 degrees BTDC
                            Main 5.6 degrees after top dead centre to 7.7 before top dead centre
                            post 17.3 degrees after top dead centre to 39.8 degrees after top dead centre

                            Pilot 1 and 2 are used to start the combustion event and lower knocking noise and NOx emissions
                            Main is for power and torque
                            post is used to lower particulate matter

                            Injection volume went from 0 mm3/ST on deceleration up to 100.21 mm3/ST on hard acceleration at 3000rpm in power mode

                            cheers, Luke

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