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5th injector clean tutorial

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  • 5th injector clean tutorial

    Hopefully this will make sense and help.
    It’s made with still shots and some instruction.
    if an actual video of it being removed and replaced would help just say.
    Any feedback on how to improve this type of tutorial is welcomed.
    It goes for about 6 mins...
    its not a difficult job but unless you have a feel on how tight things should be done up maybe not attempt it without some help.

    Cheers, Luke

    https://youtu.be/OdZACWORMMg

  • #2
    nice video mate good detail thank you

    Comment


    • Spook1205
      Spook1205 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you, appreciate the feedback.

  • #3
    👍👍👍 thanks for the video Spook.

    Do we need to torque the bolts ?Nm

    Comment


    • Spook1205
      Spook1205 commented
      Editing a comment
      If you have the torque specs sure definitely use them. But only place to get those would be a Toyota repair manual.
      But reality is they just need to be tight but not over tight where it can cause damage.

  • #4
    Nice. Thanks for taking the time to do this

    Comment


    • Spook1205
      Spook1205 commented
      Editing a comment
      No problem, I really hope it helps out.
      Always happy to do other tutorials just need to know what it is you want.
      Handbrake adjustment was another idea I had.

  • #5
    Update....
    after bit over 6000 kms and watching certain engine data creep up I decided to remove the 5th inj to assess carbon build up.
    well what I found correlated with the engine data and this injector housing was starting to carbon up again.
    after seeing this I will be removing this every 10000km and cleaning it. Because by the time I add another 4000 kms onto this build up it’s going to really need a clean for preventative maintenance.

    Comment


    • #6
      Originally posted by Spook1205 View Post
      Update....
      after bit over 6000 kms and watching certain engine data creep up I decided to remove the 5th inj to assess carbon build up.
      well what I found correlated with the engine data and this injector housing was starting to carbon up again.
      after seeing this I will be removing this every 10000km and cleaning it. Because by the time I add another 4000 kms onto this build up it’s going to really need a clean for preventative maintenance.
      WHat engine data are you watching and what value is it creeping up to?

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        Toyota techs are well aware the 5th injector blocks up but I doubt how often it does and what to look for in the Pid live data.
        To really understand live Pid data you need to study and monitor it, many people just don’t get the time to do that. I am lucky to get paid to do this and spend countless hours and hours studying systems on cars with scopes and scantools.
        What pinged it for me was it had an FB attached to a 5th inj Pid data. FB is a feedback and will say if the amount of fuel is above its base value. Being blocked to certain degrees will mean the ECU will want to dump in more fuel to achieve its expected heat range in EGT2.
        Initially I found this high, cleaned housing and it dropped to base value. It since creeped up again but not as high as when I came across it. So now it’s cleaned again
        So tomorrow on its regen I will monitor -
        Exhaust Fuel Injector FB value
        EGT2
        DPF%
        Exhaust Fuel Injector status on /off

        If my theory is correct the FB value will drop during regen hopefully back to its base value.

        If this turns out to be true I will post specs

      • dandin
        dandin commented
        Editing a comment
        Luke/John, as always thanks for sharing. I'll be adding that PID to my head unit.

        Out of curiosity, I did a quick search, but I don't think I've seen the Exhaust Fuel Inejctor Status PID.

      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        There is Exhaust Fuel Injector status which is the indicator of its operating under regen. On /Off.

        Then there is Exhaust Fuel Injector FB which is the
        the fuel trim from base value, this is what will increase when blocked (my theory anyhow)

    • #7
      Originally posted by Spook1205 View Post
      Update....
      after bit over 6000 kms and watching certain engine data creep up I decided to remove the 5th inj to assess carbon build up.
      well what I found correlated with the engine data and this injector housing was starting to carbon up again.
      after seeing this I will be removing this every 10000km and cleaning it. Because by the time I add another 4000 kms onto this build up it’s going to really need a clean for preventative maintenance.
      interesting. there is a theory floating round the net somewhere saying that the injector is not placed in a very good spot. I wonder if you can mount it a bit further outwards to reduce clogging?
      2016 GX , in White

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        It’s not the injector nozzle itself so much as the whole the fuel comes through.
        I am fairly certain though not proven that the fuel pressure to this is Injector is lift pump feed pressure. Only going by design to make this judgment.
        It already sits higher than main manifold so is out of the way.

    • #8
      Well that was an interesting regen!
      my theory (as I have always stated) of the FB and regards to blockage definitely wasn’t the case.
      i drove on highway for quite a while till it got down to about 60% accumulation. FB no change.
      then I sat on front lawn and held it at 2000 rpm, now as accumulation gets to about 30% the temps increase quite a bit. What I noticed with temp increase was my FB number going from 1.1 to 1.14 as it hit peak temps.

      The FB number appears to be the extra fuel above base value not because of blockage but to just generate a bucket load more heat.

      on a highway regen the temps stay quite lower and peak about 650 deg tops than they did sitting on front lawn which peaked at 713 deg.

      after this has done a few highway regens I’ll continue to monitor this FB. I am expecting to to drop back on highway regen as extra fuel is / may not ne needed because of driving conditions.

      it appears the FB is amount of fuel above base value needed to complete a successful regen which is affected by driving conditions (current theory)

      Eother way this thing clogs easily and should be serviced regularly.

      Comment


      • #9
        Been towing van on highway got 150km before a regen which lasted 90km then 100km later another 70km regen.
        the FB still on 1.14 but accumulation % down to the magic 0

        Comment


        • #10
          One day work out what affects this FB number and why!

          But I have this strange gut feeling I reset all the learned memory with the scantool before looking at this number again, so maybe that’s why it was low and thinking about it on the highway my car has struggled at times to hold up on decent regen temps in the last couple of weeks

          Comment


          • #11
            I'm using the formula and PID posted by John. Mine is showing 1.07. I haven't done a regeneration yet, so this is what itsi showing currently driving around town with a DPF 70% full

            Comment


            • #12
              That’s one mate, what I am thinking is you will only see a change when it does a burn.
              but if we can work out what affects that number it could be useful info for the broader community

              Comment


              • #13
                how is the FB value worked out for the older piezo injectors ? our injectors are solenoid so maybe the method is the same? the only thing the ECU can do is look at the back EMF as the current to the solenoid falls away.
                2016 GX , in White

                Comment


                • #14
                  The FB on the Exhaust Fuel Injector/ 5th injector is basically derived from EGT3. EGT3 as you know is after the DPF and that temp is monitored to make sure temp parameters are within expected values from base fuel mapping associated with the regen. So it’s the is everything ok temp sensor.

                  As for main engine injectors that FB value is basically derived from what’s called smooth idle control. The crank angle sensor will pick up variations in each cyl RPM output at idle or slightly above idle and adjust the fuel quantity so each cyl RPM will be within tolerance for smooth idle.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Hi guys

                    John Cadogan of Auto Expert has posted three videos relating to the DPF and 5th injector issue. It also contains some insider information from an engineer at Toyota.

                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKc...L-HI7TieCr9XQg

                    Apparently this is a big issue (second only to the Takata airbag recalls) for Toyota and a redesign of the 5th injector and DPF operation is on the cards.

                    Cheers

                    Comment


                    • Bussa
                      Bussa commented
                      Editing a comment
                      They are. I am no expert whatsoever, however reading this forum and reading other posts this appears to me to be a design flaw that needs a permanent fix from Toyota especially considering what the vehicles the 1GD is used in.

                    • Adam Newbury
                      Adam Newbury commented
                      Editing a comment
                      They are interesting videos, the mining engineer needs more evidence before I could take it seriously though...and it is a shame John encourages feedback/questions then ridicules pretty much anyone that dares to...yes some of the comments are unfortunate, but his responses are unnecessary and imho actually undermine the credibility of the research he presents.

                    • Spook1205
                      Spook1205 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      He probably does the whole ridicule thing to create controversy/ drama which results in likes and followers.

                      The whole exhaust lines itself with soot and the 5th injector is actually up out of the Exhaust stream so stopping it blocking would be no easy task.
                      The fuel system they have on trial in Brazil has the 5th injector after the turbo but rather than being just a plunger that pulls back and dumping diesel into the turbo to be atomised and mixed it has a slit at the end of the injector and is sprayed to atomised after turbo but before catalyst which needs the hydrocarbon.
                      Maybe we end up with that design here in Aus
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