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  • Hi


    I am new here and have been searching for information regarding the DPF’s and came across this forum.

    I have an early N80 SR5 Dual Cab Auto Hilux with about 125K on the clock and it looks like I am heading for the 5th replacement DPF as the truck is blowing excessive smoke again. I am not trying to set records but 5 DPF's could be gold medal territory.

    On Monday a work colleague followed me for about 10 minutes and the Hilux was smoking the whole time. The nature of the smoke has changed since the 1st DPF and with the 1st the smoke was white and now it is a lighter blueish white smoke.

    For about the last 1000ks the fuel economy increased to about 11l/100k -normally low to mid 8’s and after a couple of days of rougher running, high idle, higher diesel chatter and smoke it clears and back to OK. Eg on current tank the economy was an indicated 11.5l/100k for about 300k’s – in the last 200k’s the average economy of the whole tank has dropped back to 10.4l/100k. Go figure

    It has all the ECU updates etc. My driving is about 15 minutes of freeway at 110 k/h and with about 10 minutes of 80 k/h each way to and from work. No stop start traffic or heavy traffic work and I only use BP diesel from high volume service stations.


    I was speaking to the service manager today and he said another service bulletin came in yesterday for the DPF’s and I am waiting to see what the outcome is. I am not sure what a PDF costs but no profit in this Hilux for Toyota.



    Cheers

    Statler

    Comment


    • Spook1205
      Spook1205 commented
      Editing a comment
      Do you put any additives in the fuel? What oil are you using in engine?
      Is engine chipped in any way?
      Just some thoughts

  • Hi Spook

    No additives in the fuel - was thinking about using a DPF additive made by Penrite but did not follow through as I was worried about voiding the warranty

    The oil depends on the service centre used. For a time I was having it serviced outside Toyota and on request they used Toyota oil and filters - at the Toyota Dealership they use
    Valvoline
    - go figure

    Engine is bog standard.

    It's an un-needed worry.

    cheers

    Stats

    Comment


    • My Toyota dealership uses Castrol edge professional. I’m a bit sceptical would they genuine Toyota oil be better does anyone know?

      i think Castrol is good but I would have thought the Toyota oil would be better because they would make it to suit the car and running dpf etc?

      Comment


      • blatchi
        blatchi commented
        Editing a comment
        They "Genuine" oil would just be Castrol oil in a drum with a Toyota sticker on the side. Car manufacturers dont develop there own oils they just go to the oil companys and pick what ever grade they think is best for there engines

      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        The first lots of oil I got off Toyota was imported from Japan in a steel 5 lyrica container. Now the genuine oil is packaged here in Australia by Mobil.
        I always buy the genuine package oil and filters.
        Plus the guys on the parts desk at my local Toyota dealership are great guys who give great customer service to me.

    • Just had 60K service. There was an ECU update noted "to be done" on the blokes iPad, which he advised me of when I dropped the car off. On pick up I asked what the ECU update was for. He said it's for the DPF, to make the burns happen more often, to reduce the likelihood of DPF blockage.

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        Interesting, I wonder what it will do with the accumulation rate on the scangauge2. Will it still go to 100% and if it’s burning of more frequent we will end up having regens every 200km or less maybe. Hopefully this is a fix for those that need it.

        Whilst my DPF is working sweet I won’t be getting it.

      • Silverfox1111
        Silverfox1111 commented
        Editing a comment
        Sounds like it will do wonders for the fuel economy.

    • Ahhh technology, ya gotta love it! Starting to think I should have kept my 16 yr old hand-grenade model Patrol. Excuse the pun, but I find it interesting people who know about such things, find this interesting.

      As much as I like knowing about it, it just confuses the b-jesus out of me. And more importantly, hopefully nothing goes wrong with the car.

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        I have a warped mind were I find any information regarding engine management systems interesting.

      • JohnLynn
        JohnLynn commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes after many years of doing all my own maintenance on cars and boats I have not had experience with a "modern" vehicle until relatively recently. I have always been into computers and satellite boxes etc but not cars. What irritates me most is that they think for you, manufacturers must write the software thinking that it will be helpful but I find just the opposite. For instance the first up to date vehicle we had was an Audi A3, this has an electric handbrake and a feature called hill assisted start, meaning the handbrake automatically goes on/off. The down side of this is the fact that it will not release unless your seatbelt is on and the door is shut as I discovered to my horror the first time tried to reverse up some ramps with the door open.
        But back to our engines, I really enjoy discovering how they are programmed especially as even Toyota mechanics seem to be kept in the dark. Nobody as far as I am aware knows exactly how the DPF burn is deemed necessary by the ECU. There is much speculation, be it pressure, km's and time since the last one etc but we still don't know for sure. Even the so called upgrades are a mystery, my dealership had no clue as to what it's purpose was, they suggested that it would do less burns on a long trip, now we have talk of more frequent burns so wtf is the answer?

      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        The answer is go and buy a ford Ranger because they are coming back in on tow trucks after shearing the adapting plate off the torque converter that bolts to flex plate on flywheel. 3 in two weeks at one ford dealer alone.
        Ok don’t buy a ford ranger.

        Which when a regen is due is decided by numerous factors we really don’t 100% know but I guess it doesn’t matter how ECU decides particulate build up. It would be a complex equation of numerous inputs into the ECU. But it all comes down to its perceived amount of particulate matter it’s putting out. The vehicle by emission standards cannot put out any more than 5 mg/km of particulate matter.

    • Toyota had the Hilux last week and the 5th injector was blocked up. They thoroughly cleaned it at the last DPF replacement 20k away

      apparently the Toyota 'temporary fix' is a can of Wurth DPF cleaner. Who would have thought?

      They must be seriously working away on a permanent fix as throwing DPF's at the issue is not sustainable even for Toyota

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah they need cleaning every 15k to 20k kms tops or the 5th injector will block up.

    • Just an update with my replaced DPF. I've had it replaced as the cloud of smoke I left at the traffic lights was out of control... like ridiculous.
      I was happy for the first little while but the white/blue smoke kept building back up and now about a year later I'm back in the same boat.
      Currently the regen takes about 450km to complete, this is including highway driving in 5th gear etc.
      I have cars reversing at the traffic lights when this bad boy starts smokin up.
      The best was going through a drive through... it's embarrassing to say the least.

      I've already contacted Toyota, and they said they'll do a manual burn off, we've done this last time and it doesn't solve the problem.

      Comment


      • Spook1205
        Spook1205 commented
        Editing a comment
        Long term no it won’t

    • So, after not being on here for a long time (~2 years) and noticing the smoke (more blue than white) for the first time in the last 2 days after 58.5k on a Crusade auto built Feb 2016, delivered to me in Mar 2016, thought I'd Google Fortuner DPF.

      I knew there was a regen system on there - never heard it, saw the idle move up, saw any smoke, no smells - not sure it's ever done a regen. Spouse drives it mostly, so wouldn't have been looking for it, but it's never done anything like that while I've been driving it. I am astounded at full throttle, there's simply no smoke - very good for a diesel. (This is my first).

      It's done mostly Sydney freeway 100 or 110 zones, in 30+ km distances - for all of its life. With a recent job change, those long journeys have dropped off to be 1 maybe 2 a week, with the rest tootling in the 60-70 zones in the burbs with short trips - although usually sufficient to get full warm-up.

      Has that caused the sudden change I wonder.

      Regarding servicing, Clintons Toyota did the ECM DPF update (it took ages while I was waiting for it, but never noticed if they actually removed the DPF) at 30k 11 months ago. I didn't go searching for issues at that time. An ECM update is nothing out of the ordinary.

      No other issues with it whatsoever.

      My only luxury to it is that I'm a great believer in making oil change intervals short - more so with a diesel. So it's been changed at the 1500 mark, 11.4, 21.3 then I've shortened them. 30k, 36k, 42.3k, 48.2k & 54.8k. I intend to go no further than 7k between changes. Despite Toy oil - $200 (or Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 when I can get it $180) costing a fortune, a filter & sump plug gasket and some labour is better than running it to 10,000km - I believe.

      Today it would have been almost warm when I was at lights & then onto a 100 freeway - and it was smoking for maybe 2km, then stopped. I didn't notice whether it was doing it when stopped at the lights prior, but it was doing it on the entry ramp. Prior to this, it had probably been the most kms it has spent not being in a 100-110 zone (maybe 200kms)

      This afternoon, again would not have been fully warm in a 50 zone - did it again - a lot. Cars were avoiding me at the lights. A km or so later, nothing. Should also point out, no idle up (I was looking for it this time), no smells - just lots of smoke - like your pouring oil onto an exhaust manifold kinda' smoke.

      Took it out this arvo again - nothing. Where I had the opportunity, drove it with full throttle - nothing - the usual (still amazing to me with a diesel) no smoke out the back at all. The DPF is doing its job.

      Now - there is an inordinately high amount of mis-information on this thread. Admittedly its happened over 2 years, so as people learn more it changes, but there is still a lot of mis-information.

      I'd suggest the sort of kms we have done, haven't required it to do a regen, as everything's hot and light throttle at freeway speeds have done the DPF wonders. Whenever I get in it, I do a few full throttle stints.

      There is no doubt that many factors can cause the DPF to 'fill' prematurely (air leak after the MAF, the injector dribbling fuel into the DPF instead of spraying, dodgy sensors, stop-start driving, etc.). At least that's my view on it.

      Measuring regens on kms makes no sense - the electronics must be cleverer than that & I think someone has espoused it's measuring the pressure on either side of the DPF - sounds a perfect way to measure flow through it & instigate a regen accordingly.

      Toyota have an ECM update - we'll never know exactly what it changed, but simple stop-start driving could be prematurely clogging the DPF, or there is another issue outside of the DPF, that I hope Toyota check for at the same time.

      DPF delete (as in knocking the centre out of like you did with cats when they first emerged), seems silly. Compare a 3 litre Toy to this 2.8. Black smoke all the time in the 3, never in the 2.8. They work.

      I picked up a point about Sube not wanting to sell Foz diesels to city-slickers - that rang true with a friend where the Sube dealer talked them out of a diesel & into a petrol after asking what sort of kms they do........

      Are the 200 Cruiser & the 2.8 Fort/Hilux/Prado not suited to stop-start driving ? Jury still out.

      And to that guy that bags Toyota Engineers for attaching the DPF to the engine as an after-thought - you're smoking something. Perhaps they didn't long-term test as much as say Holden might do with a Commodore - here in Australia, but I'd suggest they engineered it until the cows came home.

      And for those that think the 3.0 this engine replaced is a good idea to bring back ? Pleeeaaase. That's an agricultural boat anchor in comparison. And Toyota had to emission control it (for good reason). They've done that. Unfortunately if you want a Massey Ferguson diesel simplicity, you'll just have to buy a Massey Ferguson with all the other issues that brings. The 3 litre had its time (far too long) & a new engine will have issues (LS1 munching its own bits or drinking its own oil). If you want a new Toy, then the 2.8 is your only option. If you don't like it, then buy an old Hilux/Prado/Forunner that constantly belches black smoke.

      We can't have our cake & eat it too.....

      I will of course mention the smoke to my friendly Toy dealer next (early) service.


      Comment


      • Hi Roger, good post about your experiences with DPF. I personally believe Toyota designed it so it’s not meant to be noticed. My driving is similar to what you used to do but rest assured it will average about 5 regens in two tanks of fuel.

        Sounds like your DPF didn’t cope with the change to shorter suburb driving.

        Comment


        • Just an update, the regen lasted about 900kms and the DPF full alert popped up, fantastic...

          Comment


          • I asked Toyota NZ about DPF, and was told that my 2018 Fortuner has the latest ECU updates which will increase the temp and make DPF regen faster.

            "The new software installed changes the way the DPF regeneration is performed to allow hotter and quicker regeneration. As this update has been completed on your vehicle, you will not experience the issue with the DPF in the future."

            Comment


            • I was told something similar every time... you kinda end up "I'll believe it when I see it". Obviously no one will give your car an update and say "this one is also crap".

              Either way, the latest firmware looks promising, (available as of end of June) I've done almost at 2K km now and have not noticed a burn off, saying that I don't have anything to monitor this other then the higher revs or smoke. After previous DPF clean etc. I never got past 800km before it was back on again.

              Comment


              • variable
                variable commented
                Editing a comment
                When did the update come out? I bought mine in mid-June... I just asked them a few days ago they said I have the latest software...

              • bugeye
                bugeye commented
                Editing a comment
                Available as of end of June, I'm guessing you would only have it if they updated it before you picked up the car?

            • This is their response when I asked if I should use the fuel additive to clean the 5th injector to prevent carbon build up:

              "We have spoken to our Technical Department and can confirm that we do not recommend the use of fuel additives such as injector cleaner. We now have a software update available which has solved the issue of carbon build up on the 5th injector. You are most welcome to discuss if your vehicle would benefit from this upgrade with your local Toyota Store."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by variable View Post
                This is their response when I asked if I should use the fuel additive to clean the 5th injector to prevent carbon build up:

                "We have spoken to our Technical Department and can confirm that we do not recommend the use of fuel additives such as injector cleaner. We now have a software update available which has solved the issue of carbon build up on the 5th injector. You are most welcome to discuss if your vehicle would benefit from this upgrade with your local Toyota Store."
                Some what laughable, Which of the 5 perilous updates did they not rectify the issue ?

                Same old story let’s see in 6-12 months what the verdict is

                Comment

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